Friday, August 15, 2008
What The REVEAL Study Revealed - A MUST LISTEN TO!
I would encourage you to listen to this entire broadcast. However, if you are pressed for time, please listen to the last 10 minutes. What's sad is so many churches continue to model themselves after churches like Granger, Willow Creek, Saddleback, etc.
When will these men realize that you cannot build a church on the wants and needs of unregenerate men and women?
The seeker church has a deep problem. Rather than pursue gospel preaching that God uses to convert the lost and add them to His church, they feel the church has to be attractive to the lost AS THEY ARE in their unregenerate state. This is impossible unless the church is drastically changed from its Biblical calling. The false theology is that sinners have something in them that must be appealed to in order to “woo” them into Christianity. The Holy Spirit convicts people of their sin. They cannot see the things of God as being attractive until after they are converted.
47% of those attending Granger DO NOT believe in salvation by grace.
57% of those attending Granger DO NOT believe in the authority of the Bible.
56% of those attending Granger DO NOT believe Jesus is the only way to eternal life.
End of post.
Posted by Truth Matters at 1:24 PM
13 comments:
As part of my testimony, from 1992 through 1996, I was a member of a LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod; a conservative synod - at that time anyway) congregation. I was also unregenerate, yet "believed in Jesus" and "had faith".
After abandoning the church from 1996 until 2004 (when God saved this wretch), I was a professing Christian that would have been included in the stats listed above.
So, does regeneration precede faith, or does faith precede regeneration? Hmmm, I think you know my answer to that...
Genesis 19:12-14, "Then the two men said to Lot, "Whom else have you here? A son-in-law, and your sons, and your daughters, and whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place; for we are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before the Lord that the Lord has sent us to destroy it. Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in law, who were to go marry his daughters, and said,"Up, get out of this place, for the Lord will destroy the city." BUT HE APPEARED TO HIS SONS-IN-LAW TO BE JESTING."
Lot is in a very bad situation. He has spent years down in the city of Sodom. He learned to tolerate this sort of thing, although he calls it wickedness. He had seen his sons and daughters grow up, and they apparently had married among people with those ethical standards. When the time came that Lot got this word from the Lord to leave the city, he went to his sons-in-law and said, "Let's get out of here. God is going to destroy this city." THEY LAUGHED AT HIM. THEY RIDICULED HIM. I suppose they knew that the week before Lot had invested a little money in real estate there. He had lived so long as one of them, without any real difference, that they took his warning as a big joke. THIS MAN WAS OUT OF THE WILL OF GOD IN THIS PLACE, AND HE HAD NO WITNESS FOR GOD. HE DID NOT WIN ANYBODY FOR THE LORD IN THIS CITY. THE SAME PRINCIPLE IS TRUE TODAY: WHEN YOU GO DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL, MY FRIEND, YOU DO NOT WIN THEM!!! I THINK THIS IS BEING CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED IN THIS HOUR!!!!!
Pastor Bob
"One glance of the Gospel will move the truly regenerate heart to follow!"
Karen Frey
"We live in a culture that is bound in sin like bands of iron. Moral stories, quaint maxims, and life lessons shared from the heart of a beloved pulpiteer have no real power against such darkness. We need preacher's of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who knows the Scriptures and are enabled by the grace of God to face any culture and cry out. "Thus saith the Lord!"
Paul Washer
Reformed Stooge,
You sound like the typical "saved" person who discovered reformed theology and then claims to be saved? Reformed theology doesn't save but your faith in Christ back in the early 90's does?
If Granger has repented then we should rejoice. Also, this should be a lesson learned. There is something worse than holding our silence while a lost world runs towards hell. It is WORSE if we preach to them a watered down , culturally carved, truncated Gospel that allows them to hold to a form of godliness, while denying its power to profess to know God, while denying Him with their deeds, and to call Jesus Lord, Lord, while not doing the Fathers will. Woe to us if we preach not the Gospel, but even greater woe if we do so incorrectly.
Who cares if regeneration preceeds faith or if faith preceeds regeneration?! The fact of the matter is that these go hand in hand. The unregenerate and the one without faith will not enter the kingdom of God. Why quibble over it?
The (much) more important matter is that we need to preach a gospel of salvation from the wrath of God which abides against sinners. We need to preach holiness based on the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. We need to preach total surrender. None of this is heard in most modern churches today.
Eeellama,
Why quibble about it?
Because it's the HEART of the Gospel!
If faith precedes regeneration, then whatever it is that saves a person is found in man himself...if the opposite; that a man must be "born again"...regenerated...given a heart of flesh by God before he will do anything but rebel...then salvation is of the Lord...
That's why it's not quibbling...
A whole reformation was started over that one point...
bob
Preach it brother Bob!
This is my reply to this comment:
Anonymous said...
Reformed Stooge,
You sound like the typical "saved" person who discovered reformed theology and then claims to be saved? Reformed theology doesn't save but your faith in Christ back in the early 90's does?
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First of all, thank you for taking the time to review my comment. Your reply indicated to me that I did not articulate my comment very well, as it appears to have been mis-interpreted...
The point of my comment was to share that, while a member of a traditional mainline denomination (not a seeker-sensitive type chuirch), I was an unregenerate professing Believer. I "believed"; I thought I had "faith".
The church I was a member of was definitely not a seeker-friendly church. Yet, looking back on my lifestyle during that time, AND COMPARING IT TO WHAT SCRIPTURE REVEALS CONCERNING THE LIFESTYLE OF A TRUE FOLLOWER OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, I realize that I was a false convert; lacking the Godly sorrow that true repentance brings; and lacking the FULL TRUST in what Christ accomplished through His virgin birth, sinless life, sacrificial death, and glorious resurrection. Praise the Lord that He chose to open my eyes and heart to the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit!
As for how God has used Reformed Theology in my life:
(1) Everyone has a theology that guides them. Just ask anyone who Jesus Christ is and their answer will expose their theology.
(2) Reformed Theology is merely the framework/structure that I use to understand who God is and what He expects of His child through His revealed Word.
(3) Eternal Security and Assurance are 2 different doctrines. I know that God's children are eternally secure based on what Scripture reveals. But, how do I obtain the ASSURANCE that I am saved? By examining myself to see if I am in the Faith. The sufficiency of Scripture allows me to examine myself.
(4) Prayer is also an essential element as I approach my Heavenly Father with:
- adoration; recognizing that He is the Sovereign, Holy, Righteous, Infinite God of the Universe
- confession; acknowledging what He already knows about my sin,
- thanksgiving; giving Him eternal thanks for the forgiveness He has already given me through Jesus Christ,
- supplication; asking Him for the Grace required to understand and apply what He reveals in Scripture.
My story is exactly like Reformed Stooges...false convert to actual convert to reformed faith....
bob
Corey,
Most of my family are lutheran and none of them are saved to my knowlege. I really like the blog, "cyberbrethern" and have visited it often. I finally left a comment to Rev. Paul McCain which basically stated my concern for my lost family members who are lutherans. He e-mailed me and scolded me for "coming into his house and defecating on the floor". These were his words. My question is why would he look at my question like that? My family members are members of Zion Lutheran in Manheim. I can understand why some people in every church are not saved but how can a whole family grow up in a lutheran church and none of them are saved?
To "Anonymous" with the comment that starts: "Most of my family are lutheran and none of them are saved to my knowlege..."
Brother, let me say that I can relate to the concern you have for your family.
With respect to your editorial about the "cyberbrethren blog", I hesitate to comment in detail about that due to the fact that I do not know the entire context of your dialog with Rev. McCain. With that said, I am intrigued by the comment he made to you; especially when I read this from his "Why I am a Lutheran" page:
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I love the Gospel. That is why I love Lutheranism. I don't receive Jesus and His Word and His teachings (doctrine) anywhere else like I do in Lutheranism. I don't get nearly enough of the Gospel in Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy, neither of which is fully catholic or orthodox. I don't get enough of the Gospel in Calvinism, with its fixation on God's "sovereignty" instead of Gods' love in Christ. I don't enough of the Gospel in Arminianism, which throws me always back on my "decisions for Jesus." I don't get it enough in the Charismatic movement with tongue-speaking emotionalism. I surely don't get enough "Evangel" in Evangelicalism, that's for sure, with hand-waving nonsense and endless legalisms. I'm not saying the Gospel is not to be found in these places, I just don't get enough of the Gospel from these sources. I don't get enough of the water of life and the bread of life in those place. I'm told sometimes by well intentioned people, "You just don't understand, the Gospel is really at the heart of these confessions." I wish that were so. I've seen enough of all of these to know what I want. I want Jesus. I want the Gospel. I want pure doctrine. That's why I want Lutheranism.
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Anyway, back to your family. What brings you to the conclusion that none of them are saved? Are they trusting in something other than Jesus Christ? For example, their baptism, their "religiousness", something other?
When you say "I can understand why some people in every church are not saved but how can a whole family grow up in a lutheran church and none of them are saved?"; this is a testomony on God's sovereignty in calling His chosen to repentance and faith, right?
I do not know what your role has been regarding your Witness to your family members, but here are a couple resources that may be helpful to you (in addition to the most important thing - strategic prayer for your family members):
(1) Go to http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/ and look on the right hand side of the webpage under MUST LISTEN for "Are You Really a Christian?" You can right click on the link there to download the MP3 (free distribution is allowed).
(2) Review the posting and my comment on this blog (from 8/7/2008) @ http://bloodtippedears.blogspot.com/2008/08/john-piper-witnessing-to-family-members.html
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