Sunday, November 30, 2008
Topeka Bible Church Taking Christ Out Of Christmas To Reach The Unbelievers
Is this just another bait and switch idea or a Biblically sound idea to reach the lost? A worship arts director takes Christ out of Christmas to reach the lost.
Here is yet another example of a church believing their man-made way is better than God's. Below is an article written this week by Topeka Bible Church's Worship Arts Director, Bryan Nelson. I would like to ask Bryan, is this your own human reasoning or a Bible based technique? I would encourage you, Bryan, to go into the public and boldly proclaim the unadulterated Gospel of Jesus Christ. This approach will be honoring to God!
According to Bryan, they will be teaching the Gospel at some point...that is if in fact some "unchurched" people decide to attend their church through this light show. Having this light show is not wrong but we at Truth Matters question the philosphy that says we need to hide our Christianity to get people to show up.
HERE is the article...
Yes, I did it. And I did it on purpose. And I'm glad I did it. I thought about it long and hard, but I took Christ out of Christmas. Allow me to explain.
Our church is putting together an event that synchronizes lights on a 3-story building with live musicians in 11 different windows and it's all broadcast via a low-power FM radio station. Last year was the first year, and there were 4,000+ people who came. It was great. Last year we called it the "Christmas Light Show."
This year on the promotional information the word 'Christmas' is substituted by the word 'Holiday.' Why did I do that? Because I really enjoy offending Christians. Seriously, it's because of speaking the language of our target audience. Our target crowd are those who don't celebration Christmas or fully embrace the Christmas story. These are people who don't typically attend to church, want to go to a Christmas Eve service, or maybe don't believe or know the biblical Christmas story at all. That being the case, I've thought hard about what we call this event to connect with this crowd.
Let's say I recieved an invitation to a Hanukkah Light Show by a friend. And let's say I also recieved an invitation to a Holiday Light Show by another friend. If they were held at the same time, which would I attend? Well, if I was selecting simply on the title - the Holiday Light Show. Why? I don't know much about Hanukkah. What's the story behind Hanukkah? I think it's for Jewish people, but am I allowed to go? Are they gonna do something freaky that I'm not going to understand? Do I want my kids to ask me a bizzillion questions about the manaora and what are the caps for? Maybe. Maybe not. Frankly, I would tend to steer clear because it's the unknown-ness of Hanukkah. The word Holiday tends to resonate with the general public. They know what the word holiday means. It's universal.
Let me be clear on two reasons that I didn't substitute the word. First, substituting the word 'Christmas' was NOT an attempt to avoid offending people with the truth. The light show at TBC has the potential to offend some with the truth of the biblical story of Christmas. I understand that - am I'm OK with that. Why? Because I believe it's the truth - and the greatest story ever told.
Secondly, substituting the word 'Christmas' is not an attempt to take Christ out of Christmas, but to put Christ into people's holiday. On the contrary, the purpose of the light show is to attract those that don't know about Christ in an attempt to INJECT Christ INTO their Christmas (or their holiday season as they call it). If you come in your vehicle and listen to the narration, Christ is the centerpiece. He will always be the centerpiece. But when we are attempting to connect with a crowd that doesn't know Christ is the centerpiece to begin with - we gotta speak their language so they understand.
I wonder if the angels said to God - "No, no, no...You can't become like one of them...You can't go in the form of a human baby!" I can almost hear God's reply, "Yes I do. I need to become like them of them so they can understand my purpose for coming." God not only used a language we would understand, He did it to INJECT Himself into this world!
End of post.
Posted by Truth Matters at 2:09 PM
44 comments:
If I were to take a group of musicians to the local grave yard and put on a wonderful light show, I would be laughed at and for good reason. This is no different? It all boils down to how we believe people get saved. If we can do all the right "stuff" to convince a person to "make a decision" than that person could just as easily be talked out of that decision. This is ridiculous!
Greg Theobold
Richard Baxter wrote, "Our whole work must be carried on under a deep sense of our own insufficiency, and of our entire dependence on Christ. We must go for light, and life, and strength to Him who sends us on the work." Such dependence is required because of the magnitude of the task. Again Baxter writes, "We are seeking to uphold the world, to save it from the curse of God, to perfect the creation, to attain the ends of Christ's death, to save ourselves and others from damnation, to overcome the devil, and to demolish his kingdom, to set up the kingdom of Christ, and to attain and help others to the kingdom of glory." For such things one needs more than human strength!
Pastor Bob
Good analogy, Greg.
It's unbelievable to me how horrible the theology is of these people. It's as if they could make Lazarus come forth if they would wean him into coming forth. No, he is dead!
Do what God says and let Him raise the dead. God does not need our help!
Doug
Is called ashamed of the Gospel. If "Christians" were not ashamed, they would be out proclaiming the unadulaterated Gospel of Jesus Christ to all as we are called to do.
Mark 16:15 says, "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
Note that Mark 16 does not say to go ye into all the world and be careful not to offend anyone. Mark does not say go ye into the world and carefully draw people to Christ by not using His name and hope they come to church.
Dog gone it! Noah shouldn't have told people is was going to rain or some more might have been saved! He should have been more vague and sparked their curiousity. That Noah shouldn't have listened to the Lord. All joking aside, Noah obeyed and out of 5 billion people, how many were saved? We need to quit doing things our way and I agree, proclaim the scandal of the cross to the world, even if the people kill you.
The greatest service we can do for mankind is to send them ambassadors of Christ with a true Gospel, a sound understanding of conversion, and a biblical view of the Church and the Christian life. The tools of an evangelist are few, but powerful-the proclamation of the truth, intercessory prayer, and sacrificial love. Give yourself to these things and become schooled in them before you entertain thoughts of human manipulation and coercive decisions. God raises dead sinners to life, not us.
"Mac" (Hi Josh, I am praying for your mother and that the Lord will lay it upon many hearts to give something. It has been my experience in ministry that "few" give much but that the many give prayers. 1 John 3:17, "But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?" If everyone who visits your blog would just give the price of a cup of coffee "we" can fill that thermometer up by CHRISTmas!
Blessings,
"Mac"
This is the most shocking post I have read in the past couple of years. I cannot believe people would act this way; I thought Xmas was bad, but this!? A CHURCH taking out Christ!? This I cannot believe.
I know the whole article is just silly, and the man is a fool. But, the worst part is the very last paragraph. Jesus became a man so we could understand his purpose for coming? He became a man to "become sin for us."
Since the worship pastor doesn't know or understand what Hanukkah means, he should have asked the senior pastor to give him a background on it since he has a Master of Theology (Th.M.) in Old Testament Hebrew from Dallas Theological Seminary. He probably could have assisted Mr. Nelson, or at least, pointed him in the right direction.
It's a shame that TBC is viewing people as a "target crowd" like they were a special demographic of people a business is attempting to market their product to. Sounds a lot like a Purpose Driven Church motive, to "target a crowd" too, which has significant contradictions to the Bible too.
By removing Christmas from the presentation, TBC has become like many business entities that have replaced Christmas with Holiday, so they can be more inclusive, again becoming like the world and not distinctly a church set apart from it.
So why not preach something to remove Christmas from the presentation at a time like this? Did Paul step back and reassess how he should preach to a very diverse group of people in Acts 2? No, because what he said cut them to their heart (Acts 2:37) and they asked what should they do and he told them.
Christmas is a season for celebrating the birth of Christ, although Jesus was not likely born in December, because the shepherds in the fields at the time of His birth likely indicate it was spring time when Jesus was born.
So TBC had 4,000+ people there last year, but nothing to praise God for regarding anyone who was saved from that group that night and their presentation was broadcast over the radio? So maybe it was a concert show with no message?
TBC has the opportunity to follow the apostle Paul, when he preached the gospel and saw 3,000 people come to faith in Christ, without removing Christ from his message, without musicians, lights or a radio station.
Follow me as I follow Christ, Paul said (1 Corinthians 11:1). Maybe they will.
Well, sorry to be a trouble maker but "Christmas" is from Christ-mass, Christ's death. This church is not exactly worthy of even being consdered a church. It is an entertainment center. There are some Christians who don't celebrate Christmas due to its historical origins and the commercials. I am not totally pro-Christmas celbrating, but I think this time of year is more of an opportunity to share the gospel to proclaim Christ. Instead of being disturbed but the removal of the word "Christmas", and the use of the word "holiday", the honesty of that so-called church should be acknowledged. There are hundreds of churches who celebrate Christmas who are just as outlandish as this so-called church. There is that need to not offend in those churches. What would be the benefit of putting the word "Christmas" if these jesting jokers are putting on a light show? They are being honest, it is a "holiday light show". Christ is not gloried in this. Decadence in a time of economic hard times shows the real deceit ofthis church. More and more goats to be entertainment with a false gospel.
What's the most saddening is that once people latch on to this cult called Moralistic, Therapeutic Deism, it's nearly impossible for them to believe that they're doing anything wrong because as far as they're concerned, they're still following Christianity. We need a strong emphasis on definition again. Definitions will never make a man popular as Machen once said (paraphrased), but it's vital to Christianity. This stuff is not it, and is attempting to pass itself off as it. Those of us who know that Christianity involves Christ and him being crucified and raised from the dead to propitiate God's wrath that's on everyone who doesn't believe knows that that definition of Christianity contradicts this new notion of it that's being perpetrated by so many claiming the name "evangelical" these days.
Michael Horton's Christless Christianity would be a great read for anyone struggling with the difference between true Christianity and this other religion. Here's the basic difference between the two religions:
We serve God.
They serve unbelievers.
It's very elementary when you get down the to crux of the issue.
It sounds as if this guy is simply hoping people come and hoping they end up coming to his church and then hoping they hear the Gospel. I agree with Josh, there is nothing wrong with having a light show but God controls who shows up, not man! This guy is trusting in his own manmade ideas instead of proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ and trusting in God's power and sovereignty. I applaud this man for having a light show but preach the Word to them and if they don't want to hear it, so what? God already told you the world will hate you.
Hi Josh my name is Josh. I am 14 years old and my mom said she will help me to put $5.00 of my allowance in pay pal. I want to not only pray for your mom but also help. It isn't much but it is something. This makes me happy. My mom told me not to use my last name. It makes me sad that a church would take Jesus out of the christmas program. I love to tell my friends about Jesus. How would they know if I leave him out. I am not afraid to tell my friends what Jesus did for them because I know that Jesus will save some of them. I am not able to save them so I just tell them and pray Jesus will save them. I am not to smart but I can tell anybody about Jesus because Jesus wants us to tell them. Some day I want to have a blog like you. Thank you.
Josh
Welcome to Laodicea. So they now celebrate XMAS like the world. Yet another church bows before the bovine of so-called relevance. I want something I am prepared to be martyred for - no this political patheticness. Once people were martyred for the testimony of Christ (and still are), now we just remove Christ altogether so as not to offend. Your light show is a false light.
Dear Josh,
I thank the Lord for your courage to obey His command to make disciples. It makes me happy to know that you have a passion for Jesus Christ and a willingness to tell your friends about the Gospel. I pray for an army of young men like yourself! Thank you for donating a portion of your allowance to help my mother with her chemotherapy.
Blessings,
Josh from Truth Matters
To Josh (14 yrs. old),
You show wisdom beyond your years.
pastorskid
Amen, Josh (14 yrs. old). I thank God for your courage to speak boldly at such a young age.
I cant help but think of that verse where it says something like, if you are too ashamed to mention the name of Jesus, then he will not mention your name.. We should be proud to mention who our saviour is! It should be something we shout out loud if necessary.
I commented over at the blog and now it seems that the post has been taken down :(
Possibly for a change of heart?
Not likely but hopefully.
That person has removed his article. That in itself speaks volumes! Why would you remove something you believe so strongly in that you would say, "Yes, I did it. And I did it on purpose. And I'm glad I did it. I thought about it long and hard, but I took Christ out of Christmas."? Without any explanation. It is safe to assume this gentlemen does NOT have a change of heart. If he did, he would most certainly have explained why and used it as a tool to show repentance and a humble heart. But, no explanation.
Bryan Nelson,
If you are reading this, which I know you are, would you please explain this:
1 Corinthians 2:1-5 "And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
Paul relied on the Spirit and the almightly power of God and His sovereignty, not on his own unique fallible ideas.
Please consider His power verses your ideas and believe in the 5 Sola's.
For His Glory,
Mike
The blog post is down and the church website does refer to it as a "Christmas Light Show". Not that the change in name fixes ANYTHING. Obviously, the Pastor has other theological issues he should work out before anything else.
Bryan Nelson,
If you are reading this (and I hope you are not reading any of these comments) please do not be discouraged about your passion to reach people for Jesus. Anyone who knows you, your church or was at the light show last year knows that the message of Christ is crystal clear. Your decision to change the title of the show does not change the clear message or your heart. Press forward!
To the anonymous that was disturbed that anyone would question the methods:
I watched/listened to three you tube videos from last years show. One was a newscast and two others were actually videos of the show with the audio of the music/narrative.
The message from the show as I understood it was that Jesus came to save men from darkness. Well, if I am lost and in the darkness, why can't I can just turn on my lights?
Grace and Peace...
ABClay
I agree Bryan does have a passion to reach lost people and that is wonderful but we are commanded by God how to do it. I am not here to attack Bryan personally. I am here to critique the unbiblical man-made method(s) he is using. As if fallible man knows better "how" to "do" evangelism.
If you truly believe God is sovereign and you believe in His power, there is absolutely no reason to take Christ out of Christmas.
Let me reiterate, having this light show is not wrong but we at Truth Matters question the philosphy that says we need to hide our Christianity to get people to show up.
Thanks Mike for the Scripture you provided which I will repost: 1 Corinthians 2:1-5 "And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
Lastly, someone else wrote, "Mark 16:15 says, "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
Amen!
Josh from Truth Matters
How about just witnessing to your neighbors, co-workers and strangers? How about inviting these people to church. Why do we need to take Christ out of the picture? Easter is about Christ enduring all of God's mighty wrath on the cross and defeating death 3 days later. Easter is not about bunnies and candy. So, do we start having church events where we do not preach Christ's atonement because people won't come? What in the world is going on?
I see nothing wrong with having a light show. It's a great idea. But to take Christ out of Christmas? I thought this was a joke.
At my church we do door to door evangelism but we also have events at local parks, etc where we have our band play, get to know people, and invite them to church.
Taking Christ out of Christmas is almost trying to play God. Taking Christ out of Christmas to me shows a lack of faith. Taking Christ out of Christmas to get more attendance is saying, "Lord, I can get more people to come to this event than You can!"
Again, this light show is a great idea and I think I may take this idea to my church's worship director. So for that, I am thankful.
I pray this gentlemen would see that this method is flat out wrong.
If this were not a church event, so be it. I can personally go talk to my neighbor today and not speak of Christ. I can go out and mingle with people and build relationships and perhaps at some point share the Gospel or invite them to church.
But having an event run by the church and purposely hide Christ needs to be repented of. By even thinking that hiding Christ will draw a bigger crowd is scary. It's frightening.
For His Glory,
Timothy McCracken
Here is the cached of the original article. Just scroll down and you will see it:
>Vertical Resonator<
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
Many pastors are abandoning Scriptural wisdom in favor of pleasing men with worldly ideas. We need to pray that this deception is kept from our pastors.
Luke 2
The Birth of Jesus Christ
-------------------------
1In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. 2This was the first registration when Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3And all went to be registered, each to his own town. 4And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the town of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, 5to be registered with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. 6And while they were there, the time came for her to give birth. 7And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.
The Shepherds and the Angels
----------------------------
8And in the same region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with fear. 10And the angel said to them, "Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12And this will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger." 13And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,
14 "Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!"
15When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, "Let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has made known to us." 16And they went with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby lying in a manger. 17And when they saw it, they made known the saying that had been told them concerning this child. 18And all who heard it wondered at what the shepherds told them. 19But Mary treasured up all these things, pondering them in her heart. 20And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, as it had been told them.
21And at the end of eight days, when he was circumcised, he was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
Jesus Presented at the Temple
-----------------------------
22And when the time came for their purification according to the Law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord 23(as it is written in the Law of the Lord, "Every male who first opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord") 24and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the Law of the Lord, "a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons." 25Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27And he came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law, 28he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,
29"Lord, now you are letting your servant depart in peace,
according to your word;
30for my eyes have seen your salvation
31 that you have prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and for glory to your people Israel."
33And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him. 34And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed 35(and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed."
36And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with her husband seven years from when she was a virgin, 37and then as a widow until she was eighty-four. She did not depart from the temple, worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day. 38And coming up at that very hour she began to give thanks to God and to speak of him to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.
The Return to Nazareth
----------------------
39And when they had performed everything according to the Law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth. 40 And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom. And the favor of God was upon him.
The Boy Jesus in the Temple
---------------------------
41Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover. 42And when he was twelve years old, they went up according to custom. 43And when the feast was ended, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. His parents did not know it, 44but supposing him to be in the group they went a day’s journey, but then they began to search for him among their relatives and acquaintances, 45and when they did not find him, they returned to Jerusalem, searching for him. 46After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47And all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48And when his parents saw him, they were astonished. And his mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been searching for you in great distress." 49And he said to them, "Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?" 50And they did not understand the saying that he spoke to them. 51And he went down with them and came to Nazareth and was submissive to them. And his mother treasured up all these things in her heart.
52And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man.
I was so saddened to read about this. Another church that is ashamed of the name of Christ. That they are not willing to proclaim His name in ALL that they do and say.
I would venture a guess they will be preaching the prosperity message next, followed by a visit by Rob Bell.
If we don't proclaim the glory of God, the rocks and earth will.
PLEASE DON'T BE ASHAMED OF THE NAME OF OUR SAVIOR.
It ALWAYS comes down to one thing.
Not having faith in the gospel itself.
Let me explain.
Recently I asked a brother in the Lord for some advice...witnessing/preaching advice. His name is Rand and you can check his blog out at:
www.aformofsoundwords.blogspot.com
(Josh, I hope that's ok to do...you can edit it out if it's not)
The advice he gave me turned my head around...it changed my way of thinking, witnessing and preaching.
Did I believe the Doctrines of Grace? Yes...
Did I believe that God saves men that He Himself forordaines, and on HIS time-table? yes...
BUT
I still held on to my "witnessing method" mentality...that I needed a method.
Here is what he told me.
"Brother, I'd rather see you stand on a street corner and just READ out of Romans, than to try and come up with anything fancy and man made. You have no faith in the word of God, do you?"
That really got to me and he was right to a degree.
Yes..I did have faith but not completely....it was "the gospel + something"
And this is what's going on here...most churches feel that standing on a street corner and just preaching just ain't gonna attract people so something else must be done that's more palatable to the average sinner.
And it just aint true.
I defy this Topeka Church to just TRY IT.
DON'T LOOK FOR RESULTS!!!
That's still MISSING THE POINT...
Just be faithful and do it...even if NOBODY SHOWS UP...just do it.
bob
the Vertical Resonator Blog site has pulled the article.
I gues they didnt like the heat!
You know, someone probably already mentioned this... but is this man aware that non-religious folks celebrate Christmas? That it's about the tree and Santa and the presents for them? That they make no mention of Christ but still acknowledge the holiday. They didn't used to care what it was called, they follow the commercial clone of Christmas (now they apparently can't stand to even see "the Christ" in there). If you tell a non-religious person "let's go to a Christmas show" they will probably decide based on what they know Christmas to be, and if they don't acknowledge the LORD and SAVIOR in anyway, why would they hesitate to say yes. Now, if a Christian person is asking, forget about it.
May GOD have mercy on us, and forgive all our good intentions.
I notice, it's not usually about helping to bring another soul to Christ, but more about bringing another rear into their pews.
Anyone who thinks it is ok to take CHRIST out of CHRISTMAS has a very bad problem but only they have to explain it to God on their judgement day. So telling them they are wrong it is not our place to judge but one day their time will come where they have to explain themselves and I hope they can. I also hope they can be forgiven. kansas usa
Friends,
I'm coming to you as a personal friend of Bryan Nelson and a musician in the light show. I've been blessed enough with the opportunity to participate for the last 2 years and even had a chance to program the lights for the last song. Up to this point, I loved participating in TBC's HOLIDAY Light Show and believed it was one of the best opportunities to get my friends to a church. However, after reading all of these comments, I fear I may go to Hell for participating in something that is such an abomination. Please forgive my sarcasm, I had to inject my own form of humor after reading all the comments by well-intentioned Christians who are way over-reacting.
I am not ashamed of the Gospel. Bryan Nelson is most definitely not ashamed of the Gospel. TBC, as a church, does nothing but try and spread the Gospel. I will not defend our hearts, however, as God knows our motives and intentions. I'm just getting so sick of Christians bickering with one another. Brothers and Sisters, the WORD OF GOD is being preached to unbelievers, that is all that matters. If our methods are un-Biblical, may God forgive us, but this does not change the fact that the WORD OF GOD is preached.
"14 Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously and fearlessly.
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice."
Phillipians 1:14-18
Please pay close attention to verse 18. Don't get worked up by our motives or methods, just be rejoicing in the fact that unbelievers are hearing the Gospel.
Just so all of you know, 5,500+ people attended this years Holiday Light Show, that's about 1,500 more than last year. We did not advertise this year's show near as much. I don't know if the increase in numbers was due to the title change, and I really doubt it was, but I'm glad Bryan thought (and probably prayed vigorously as well) about it enough to try and get as many people to church as possible.
If any of you are seriously concerned that I am wicked in my ways and am not doing everything I can do to effectively reach the lost here in Topeka, KS, than you should probably be praying for me right now or email me to tell me what I'm doing wrong at wuthad@gmail.com.
Blessings,
Thad
1 Peter 4:11
Thad,
I admire your passion for reaching the lost! You stated that this holiday light show " was one of the best opportunities to get my friends to a church". I was wondering what their reaction was to the light show? And did you ever personally tell them the gospel message?
Blessings,
Eric
Hi Thad......it seems to me that you are the one who is over-reacting (wicked/abomination??). The whole point is not that anybody is wicked for having a passion to see the lost come to a saving faith, BUT the point is "How does God save a lost man"? What you have to understand is that it takes more power of God to raise a DEAD sinner to life than all the power of God in creation itself! When "we" (and all of us have done this)try to use "human" manipulation to get people to Christ....."we" lose the very thing "we" need most!
Paul Washer said one time: "There is something worse than holding our silence while the lost world runs headlong into hell. It is the crime of preaching to them a watered down, culturally carved, truncated Gospel that allows them to hold to a form of godliness, while denying its POWER, to profess to know God, while denying Him with their deeds, and to call Jesus "Lord,Lord", while not doing the Father's will. Woe to "US" if we preach not the Gospel, but even greater woe if "we" do so incorrectly!!
Matthew 7:14, “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are “FEW” who will find it.”
For the most part evangelical churches have done well teaching that there is one way to heaven. Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no man comes to the Father but by Me." Even in contemporary evangelism where the rage is all about cultural sensitivity, and finding new ways to preach the “old gospel”, they also teach that Jesus is the only way. But listen my friend...listen to what this verse teaches. Not only does it say that the gate is small, (Jesus Only), but it also states that the “WAY” is narrow! Now I know that some who will read this will say that this author is teaching a “works” salvation, but I AM NOT! Salvation is faith ALONE in CHRIST ALONE period, but you cannot get away from the fact that not only is the gate small but here it says that the way is narrow and “listen”...it states very clearly that there are few....think about this…..only a FEW will find it!
What is meant by a few? Well let’s be certain about one thing, it does NOT mean that all those who gather every Sunday in the name of Jesus are the few and the rest of the world are the many. NO, this is not what that means! Matthew 7:21 states that “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter.
Who are these few? I will tell you exactly who these few are! Of all the people who definitely claim Jesus as Lord....of all these people.....only a “few” of them will enter into heaven. This is terrifying. Just stop reading and think about what this is saying. Of all the people in this whole world who claim the name of Jesus Christ and do it emphatically, of these, only a few are really God’s elect!
"We" need to preach the Gospel! Faith comes by "hearing" and "hearing" by a light show...NO by the word of God"! (Rom. 10:17). When the Word of God is preached....God will give His people "blood-tipped-ears" so that they might be saved! We need to believe that!!
America does not need more professing believers. Just go door to door in your neighborhood and ask them if they know Jesus. You will discover that almost all of them know Jesus! Why is this? Because of the very thing that your church and millions like it are doing!! "We" need more preacher's who will preach the Word of God and fully depend upon the Lord and His power to raise a dead sinner to life. America is NOT Bible hardened......it is biblically ignorant! Our only hope is restoring sound doctrine concerning the nature of conversion which is foundational to being a church that brings God the glory that only He deserves!!!!
"Praying with you...Thad...to build "true" churches for His glory and our good!"
Pastor Bob
P.S. Why was the original post removed if all is well? Just wondering.
"I am not ashamed of the Gospel. Bryan Nelson is most definitely not ashamed of the Gospel."
- Then tell us again why you took Christ out of Christmas?
I don't get it.
Paul
Hey Thad and Bryan and Topeka Church, how about helping this family with a nice "Christmas" donation to fill up that thermometer!!
Ellie
"14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. 19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity."
20 Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. 21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.
22 So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. 23 Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."
(emphasis added)
2 Timothy 2:14-26 (ESV)
Listen Friends,
I tried to respond to each of the replies to my post last night, but some error kept it from going through, so I'll do a much shorter post today. It'll the best for all of us. ;)
To Pastor Bob, I know you think I'm over-reacting. I'm sure a lot of people think I am. Heck, I think a lot of you are over-reacting. The internet does not allow for transfer of emotion well, and things get misconstrued. I was simply injecting sarcasm in my post. I was trying to inject some sense of humor (even if it be in it's lowest form) into this post. I have been saddened by how much controversy a silly title to an outreach has caused, among believers no less! Pastor Bob, you and I agree on a lot of things. I'm very familiar with Paul Washer and his teachings. I understand that a lot of our churches today are broken, teaching unbiblical things. I love what, I think it's John Piper, says on what the church is teaching today. He says that a lot of churches are telling us to believe and be saved. That's great, but what does it mean to believe? (and this also mirrors a lot of what Paul Washer teaches). Piper says that he thinks rather than believe, he likes to ask if we treasure God with all our heart? Do we put Him above all else? I understand that all of us need to take a deeper look at our lives and ask ourselves if we are bearing good fruit? Are we doing the work that God called us to do? So, I mean, you and I agree. We have a same view of Biblical doctrine from what I'm gathering. I can't speak for my church or Bryan Nelson, because I'm not them, but I know they know those general truths. Also, they preach those general truths. Thanks for your concern.
To Paul, The gospel was preached, that's all that matters. See the scripture above. All the cars that came to the light show heard the message of Christmas. Not only that Christ was born, but why He was born. Not only that He would later die and rise again, but why He died and rose again. It's something that you and I understand because we have the Spirit, but we often forget that unbelievers do not understand the most basic things because they do not have the Spirit. Again, the reason Bryan chose to call this outreach the Holiday Light Show and not the Christmas Light Show doesn't matter. The same message would have been preached. God knew what hearts He would be working on those 3 nights from the beginning of time. Does us changing the title of this event change who God is going to draw near to Him? No. Is it wrong that we changed the title to try to get as many people as we could there? I don't think so, and neither did Bryan. This is a pointless quarrel. People heard the gospel. Last year we had about 4,000 people show up, this year we had 5,500+. Was it because we changed the name of the event? I don't know, but the more people that hear the Truth of Christ, the better.
Hi Ellie, I guess I don't understand whether your post was an actual question, angry, meant to be humorous or whatever. Also, I don't understand the point of the quotations around Christmas. Therefore, the best way to answer your question...erm, statement(?) is with something else most people probably won't understand. Answer: 43 Rhombuses can fit under the bridge.
There you go Ellie, you're welcome. ;)
Finally, To Eric,
Hey man, thanks for admiring my passion. I'm glad you see that. To you, the efforts of me and my church seem like to passionate attempts to reach the lost. To others, the efforts of me and my church seem like worldly attempts to fill the pews in an effort to teach the congregation unbiblical doctrine. Honestly, no one in here has room to judge whether what we are doing is good or bad. Whether our motives are pure or selfish. I'd say, even if you were to meet us, I'd still be cautious to try and judge our hearts. I'll leave that up to God. I know for myself, I do have a passion to reach the lost. Sometimes I have a hard time loving the lost, but I do have a passion to reach them. I work in a ministry called Young Life (www.younglife.org) I have been involved with that for 4 years and know how hard it is to reach the lost today. Young Life over here is thriving with Campus Crusade for Christ is struggling. Why do I think that is? I think it's because once any kid sees Christ attached to any organization, unless they're a Christian, they're scared away from it. Young Life does not have Christ attached to the name, so kids come in not knowing what we are about. We are pretty much the same format as CCfC, but kids tend to respond better to us. Do I think we are deceiving kids by not putting the Christ on the name of something that is clearly a ministry? Absolutely not. It is just the way to reach lost kids right now.
I just realized I'm not answering your question and more likely should have put that section under Paul's response. Eh, whatever.
I'll continue. To answer your question on unbelievers coming to the show, I have several friends who were so impressed by the show that they came a second night and brought more friends. One of my friends from school that came is probably the most vulgar dudes I know, I told him about the show and he came on the first night. After the show, he messaged me and let me know that the show was phenomenal so he took his whole family to see it a second night.
The coolest story I have is from last year. There's a guy who's been attending our church for about a year now. His name is Lee and he works at the largest radio station in Topeka. He got us some great equipment this year to help make the Light Show bigger and better than the year before. The cool thing about him is, last year, him and his wife came to the light show as unbelievers, that next Sunday they started attending our church and now are both actively involved in the church, using their gifts and talents. They are both growing in their walk with Christ now and there are many other stories like that from last year as well.
To anyone else, just know this. The goal of the TBC Holiday Light Show is not to entertain or get people planted in a church. We definitely did not put this on so other churches would come and see all the cool stuff we could do. We did this to reach the lost. If we are not doing this to further the Kingdom of God, than I hope that we don't do the show again. Thanks for all the replies. I hope you all have a great Holiday, erm, I mean Christmas! :)
Blessings,
Thad
1 Peter 4:11
Thad,
May we both live out 1 Peter 4:11. God may be glorified! That is the goal of everything! (Ro 11:33-36; Eph 3:21; 2 Tim 4:18; 2 Pe 3:18; Rev 1:6).
For His glory,
Pastor Bob
While this "church" was busy removing Christ from Christmas, another "church" was busy injecting Christ into Christmas in a blasphemous manner.
See here: http://defendingcontending.com/2008/12/26/being-bold-and-radical-or-being-contemptuous-and-blasphemous/
The world is changing. The church has been behind for years. We get hung up on defending lifeless arguments and throwing rocks at anyone who decides to do something different in order to reach people. I really feel God is big enough to handle us removing a part of a man made name that has only significance to Christians. To argue so vehemently about such things smacks of a lack of love for people . . . and more of a love for tradition. I would wholeheartedly support any church who decides they are not going to let man-made ideologies stand in the way of getting the message out.
Mark
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